your advice on Linux-compatible MIDI INTERFACES please

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Veerstryngh Thynner
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Re: your advice on Linux-compatible MIDI INTERFACES please

Postby Veerstryngh Thynner » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:19 am

To barbouze:

Technically, it isn't impossible but as explained it is far from perfect and/or too computationally intensive for the now and the magic translator you are looking for doesn't exist yet. :(
Don't loose hope and think outside the box. Could you find/build a MIDI controller that would allow you to somehow have the feeling of playing a guitar with all its expressibility?


Well, there might be, with some luck. Carla seems to accept (proprietary) Jam Origin MIDI Guitar 2. That's the best guitar MIDI device there is, as to state-of- the art at this moment in time. And, for me personally perhaps, my one hope. But then: Carla only accepts the sf2 format, apparently - which means that my sfz guitars and basses need to be rewritten in sf2, somehow. And I haven't got a clue how to bring that about, to be honest.

to GMaq:

Am I glad to see you joining this fun!

I clearly remember you as the guy who found out, years ago, that Carla seems to run Jam Origin MIDI Guitar, at first glance. But since you didn't own a guitar, at the time, it's still unknown whether or not MIDI Guitar is actually operative, in Linux.

Additional thought:

Sforzando is a freeware sfz sample player, modelled on the Aria engine. A quick search after already having posted the above, found this contribution, of some years in the past:

Varpa writes:

Sforzando runs well with Wine, in my experience, and I've also used it hosted by carla.lv2 [...].


This may be a clue that Sforzando, too, could work in Carla.

The advantage over Linuxsampler as an SFZ host is that it supports more of the SFZ2 spec (such as it is) which really means it support the SFZ keywords introduced by Sforzando. To some extent the Sforzando version of SFZ is the "industry" standard some it is useful to have it available to take advantage of the features of some SFZs which linuxsampler does not currently support.


Any more positive confirmation of this, perhaps, out there?

Veerstryngh Thynner

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GMaq
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Re: your advice on Linux-compatible MIDI INTERFACES please

Postby GMaq » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:41 pm

Veerstryngh Thynner wrote:to GMaq:

Am I glad to see you joining this fun!

I clearly remember you as the guy who found out, years ago, that Carla seems to run Jam Origin MIDI Guitar, at first glance. But since you didn't own a guitar, at the time, it's still unknown whether or not MIDI Guitar is actually operative, in Linux.

Veerstryngh Thynner


Hi,

Still nothing conclusive however a recent quick test with a recent standalone version (not the VST plugin) of Jam Origin MIDI guitar shows that it still runs in Wine. It requires an ASIO Audio driver and I was able to get it working with wineasio and pass audio through it using some of the built-in MDA plugins that Jam Origin now comes with. I have yet to test with a guitar, not because I don't have one... I have a few, the issue is my home computer which I answer forum posts etc with only has an outboard Audio device and my instruments etc are in a different location. I just haven't made the required time commitment to assemble all the pieces to fully test Jam Origin but having gotten this far I hope to give it a try this weekend because it is intriguing.

More on this to come (hopefully).

Veerstryngh Thynner
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Re: your advice on Linux-compatible MIDI INTERFACES please

Postby Veerstryngh Thynner » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:07 pm

GMaq writes:

I have yet to test with a guitar, not because I don't have one...


Well, apologies for the misunderstanding. I really had that impression, since most of that original discussion was about 'axes'... :)

GMaq writes:

I just haven't made the required time commitment to assemble all the pieces to fully test Jam Origin but having gotten this far I hope to give it a try this weekend because it is intriguing.


Intriguing this is indeed! So I took myself back to the original 2016 discussion.

This was about as to whether Jam Origin MIDI Guitar will work in Carla. And even though I'm anything but an IT engineer, it seems to me that the post below may be a good start for picking up the investigation again.

Re: Jam Origin MIDI GUITAR

Post by Strangetown » Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:08 pm

[...] the latest release of Midi Guitar still works in Linux. Furthermore I have got the external Midi control to work using my firewire sound module's midi interface using Alsa virtual midi.

To enable virtual midi you have to load it:

Code: Select all

$ sudo modprobe snd_virmidi


This will give you (per default) four virtual midi devices, if you only want one, extend the command thus:

Code: Select all

$ sudo modprobe snd_virmidi midi_devs=1


You'll have to tell Linux to reload that module after a reboot:

Code: Select all

$ sudo su


You'll possibly have to enter your password now. Afterwards:

Code: Select all

 $ echo snd-virmidi >> /etc/modules


Credit to the above commands goes to http://answers.bitwig.com/questions/121 ... s-on-linux

I used the Cadence jack controller from the Kxstudio repositories to run this as I was having crash problems with Qjackctl when trying to get it to run the bridge on startup*

http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/Repositories

*note you have to connect the firewire midi to virtual midi through in one of the patchbay apps inside Cadence to establish the connection.


With Jack2 set up in Cadence and Carla handling sfz musical instrument sample, I'm personally keen on a "chain" like below actually working:

guitar --> audio interface --> [Cadence running jack, NSM keeping an eye on things] --> Carla to run sfz sample, through JOMG 2 as Carla client --> DAW (possibly NON Timeline)

If Jam Origin MIDI Guitar shows indeed fully responsive to Carla. And if I'm not hoping for too much.

Veerstryngh Thynner

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GMaq
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Re: your advice on Linux-compatible MIDI INTERFACES please

Postby GMaq » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:30 pm

Hi again,

I understand the signal flow you are looking for, but it appears as though the latest trial version of Jam Origin does not come in a plugin format unless you purchase it through the trial version, so there is no way to test the current VST plugin in Carla. It is possible to assume the VST plugin will behave like the standalone in Carla but there are no guarantees.

Testing is still on the todo list.

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Re: your advice on Linux-compatible MIDI INTERFACES please

Postby Brian » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:11 pm

I think you may be misunderstanding the contents of a MIDI stream.

MIDI is an entire language, featuring NOTE ON and NOTE OFF events, controller messages (pitch bend, volume, reverb depth, etc. etc.); it is decidedly not an easy/quick conversion process, especially compared to simply digitizing the analog audio stream. If you want to create a MIDI stream from your (analog) guitar input, you'll suffer through tons of latency. I doubt it will track well enough to provide anything close to "real time" playing, and even then, only after you've drastically altered your playing style.


asbak wrote:There will probably be some latency.


...and the award for Most Promising Understatement of the Year goes to asbak. :wink:

Which is to say, there will be latency, and plenty of it in that chain. Accurately tracking a clean analog input to create a MIDI stream is onerous enough, and likely to place this project in the "theoretical" column at best. It is nice to imagine, though, how sweet it would be to pipe a recording of <<insert favorite artist/song>> into the audio IN and get an accurate, complete MIDI stream out. ...in real time, even!

Jack Winter
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Re: your advice on Linux-compatible MIDI INTERFACES please

Postby Jack Winter » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:08 pm

Brian wrote:I think you may be misunderstanding the contents of a MIDI stream.

MIDI is an entire language, featuring NOTE ON and NOTE OFF events, controller messages (pitch bend, volume, reverb depth, etc. etc.); it is decidedly not an easy/quick conversion process, especially compared to simply digitizing the analog audio stream. If you want to create a MIDI stream from your (analog) guitar input, you'll suffer through tons of latency. I doubt it will track well enough to provide anything close to "real time" playing, and even then, only after you've drastically altered your playing style.


I demonstrated how to do that on linux (albeit with certain limits), but still at low latency in viewtopic.php?p=85659#p85339. The limitations are one note at a time, and no pitch bend event for slides, but I played various leads on linux synths from my guitar, some bass synth lines too. The roundtrip latency used on my rme multiface was ~5ms.. Maybe some heavy synths might need more.
Reaper/KDE/Archlinux. i7-2600k/16GB + i7-4700HQ/16GB, RME Multiface/Babyface, Behringer X32, WA273-EQ, 2 x WA-412, ADL-600, Tegeler TRC, etc 8) For REAPER on Linux information: https://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.php/REAPER_for_Linux

Veerstryngh Thynner
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Re: your advice on Linux-compatible MIDI INTERFACES please

Postby Veerstryngh Thynner » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:39 pm

Could you find/build a MIDI controller that would allow you to somehow have the feeling of playing a guitar with all its expressibility?


Such a MIDI controller does already exist, as a matter of fact. It's called Jam Origin MIDI Guitar, and it's really, really good. And the only one out of three (JOMG, Sonuus & Migic) truly polyphonic. All in the proprietary bracket, of course.

Predictably, Jam Origin has no intention whatsoever to release a Linux version any time soon. That said, though, Carla, in KXStudio, seems to run JOMG. And as to whether it's fully functional is something I 'm keen to sink my teeth into.

Another sign of hope is a US company that builds MIDI guitars to order. Here an overview of their instruments currently out:

http://www.visionaryinstruments.com/products/

Veerstryngh Thynner

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Re: your advice on Linux-compatible MIDI INTERFACES please

Postby frostfall » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:34 pm

Veerstryngh Thynner wrote:
Could you find/build a MIDI controller that would allow you to somehow have the feeling of playing a guitar with all its expressibility?


Such a MIDI controller does already exist, as a matter of fact. It's called Jam Origin MIDI Guitar, and it's really, really good. And the only one out of three (JOMG, Sonuus & Migic) truly polyphonic. All in the proprietary bracket, of course.

Predictably, Jam Origin has no intention whatsoever to release a Linux version any time soon. That said, though, Carla, in KXStudio, seems to run JOMG. And as to whether it's fully functional is something I 'm keen to sink my teeth into.

Another sign of hope is a US company that builds MIDI guitars to order. Here an overview of their instruments currently out:

http://www.visionaryinstruments.com/products/

Veerstryngh Thynner


I tried it before and it work very nicely with only a very small delay between the play and the sound. The polyphonic detection is great, really impressive. The bend detection is not very nice however, it just play a different note if you bend too much.

That's how I made the system work :
start midi guitar 2. In Audio interface choose wineasio driver. Start carla.
Guitar plugged to computer -> In carla, connect capture device to midi guitar in. Unplug midi guitar output. In midi guitar, midi interface output should be midi through port 0. Start a2jmidid -e and in Carla, plug Midi through port 0 output to the instrument plugin of your choice.

It's not very difficult and a lot of fun. You can test midi guitar freely and the only restrictive things is you have to push a button every 15min to have sound back. Very nice to do a lot of test before buying the product!

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Re: your advice on Linux-compatible MIDI INTERFACES please

Postby tavasti » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:18 pm

Did not read everything, sorry for that.

If you want to play guitar, and input that as midi to DAW, then you will need one of these:

a) guitar-kind (more or less) device which will produce midi output. You Rock Guitar YRG 2000 is such guitar like-thing. Most likely company making it is dead. Zivix Jamstick is another.

b) additional device converting guitar playing to midi. Roland guitar synths do it, check Roland GR-55, and you can check ebay for older versions (GR-22, GR-33, what ever they are). They containg own synth, but they can output also midi. Does not work flawless, but if you anyway are going to edit it in daw, works fine. Fishman TriplePlay is another option, and there might be others also.

c) software to convert guitar audio to midi. I don't know any of the free alternatives would do it on any usable level. Jam Origin MIDI Guitar is commercial product, try that as somebody adviced.

Check also this thread viewtopic.php?f=48&t=16223
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dormirj
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Re: your advice on Linux-compatible MIDI INTERFACES please

Postby dormirj » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:15 pm

Veerstryngh Thynner wrote:But what if I strum my guitar, at interface input stage, and I want to hear a different instrument, over my headphones?


this is only a side-note really, but i believe there also to be another route to this issue, you might completely disregard midi and look into dsp programming. for reference there are several commercial pedals from electro-harmonix which can turn the clean guitar sound into synthesizers, organs, mellotrons, etc - completely without any kind of pitch analysis/midi conversion.

i believe i read somewhere in the muff wiggler forum that it was built on adding spectral qualities of the target instrument and a lot of arcane filtering, so maybe someone here who is versed in dsp coding would be able to shed some light on this? i haven't yet the insight to judge how complex such a project might be...

greetings;;
dormir


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